Beiträge von vadimav

=================DE===================

1) Manuelle Routen, die nur 2 Befehle im Schaltfeld enthalten und in anderen Feldern nichts haben – können unendlich lange ausgesetzt werden, wenn der Anforderungszustand durch den Befehl Folge (Conductor) aufgerufen wird. (Anhang beachten).

Der Grund ist unbekannt!

Anfangs glaube ich, dass das Gerät überhitzt. Ich machte eine starke Abkühlung.

Es entfernt diese Fehler nicht.

Bitte den Grund nennen??? Wie kann man es reparieren???

2) Es ist nicht möglich, eine Kopie einer ausgesetzten manuellen Route von anderen automatischen Routen auszuführen. All diese Folge-Befehle (Conductor) werden ignoriert, und es kam zu Eisenbahnunfällen.

3) Wenn 10 Routen (zum Beispiel) gleichzeitig denselben Folger (Leiter genannt manuelle Route) aufrufen, wird nur EINE davon ausgeführt. Keine Befehlsprogrammkasse oder FIFO-Warteschlange vorhanden! Alle diese Programmaufrufe von anderen Routen gehen verloren!

4) Wenn Folger (Dirigent mit der Bezeichnung manuelle Route) bei Anforderung ausgesetzt wird, werden alle diese Anrufe von allen Routen verpasst. Es kommt zu einem großen Zugunglück.

Die Verwendung eines FOLGER / CONDUCTOR-Befehls anstelle von 2 Befehlen auf der Seite "ON THE WAY" - IST DER

FALSCHE WEG, DER ZUM ABSTURZ FÜHRT.

SCHLUSSFOLGERUNG: NEUES KORRIGIERTES FIRMWARE-UPDATE ERFORDERLICH.

=================EN===================

1) Manual Routes, containing only 2 commands at switching field and have nothing at other fields - can suspend at infinite time at request state being called by Folge ( Conductor ) command. (See the attachment).

The reason is UnKnown!

Initially i believe that device is overheating. I made a strong cooling. It does not remove this errors.

Please tell the reason??? How to repair it???

2) Unable to run a copy os suspended manual route from other automatical routes. All this Folge ( Conductor ) commands are ignored, and railroad crashes happened.

3) If 10 routes (for example) will simultaneously call the same Folger ( conductor called manual route ) only ONE of them will be executed. No command program cash or FIFO queue exist! All this program calls from other routes are loosed!

4) If Folger ( conductor called manual route ) will suspend at request state - All these calls from all routes will be missed. A big train crash will occur.

So usage oа FOLGER / CONDUCTOR command instead of 2 commands at "ON THE WAY" page - IS WRONG WAY LEADING TO CRASH.

CONCLUSION: NEW CORRECTED FIRMWARE UPDATE REQUIRED.

=========DE==========

THEMA: Der Kommandant scheint die Alzheimer-Krankheit zu haben.

BEDINGUNGEN:

SOFTWARE:

-Firmware 1.401-1.402

-Automatikmodus, ca. 100 Routen.

-Alle verwendeten Felder und Befehle (inklusive FOLGER-Conductors).

HARDWARE:

-DCC-Format. Kein RailCom.

-Über 1A füttern.

-Etwa 280 S88-Stromsensoren.

-Etwa 100 Weichen und Signale.

-Etwa 10 Züge.

-Kein FSB, kein LSB, keine Booster.

-Keine Kabel- oder WiFi-externen Roco- oder PC-Mäuse.

ERKLÄRUNGEN:

- Im Automatikmodus vergisst Commander auf verschiedenen Seiten (Schalten, Unterwegs, Fahrstraße deaktivieren) verschiedene Fahrstraßenbefehle (Lokgeschwindigkeiten, Weichenfunktionen, Weichen und Signale) auszuführen.

-Diese Wahl ist absolut spontan.

-Es tritt mit einer Rate von etwa 2 Vergessensbefehlen pro 10 Routen auf.

-Dies ist dramatischer in 1.402 FirmWare.

- Der Kommandant vergisst, diese Befehle auszuführen und zeigt seine Ausführung nicht auf dem LCD-Bildschirm an, ungefähr bei 80 % der Fälle, und zeigt seine Ausführung an, sendet aber keine entsprechenden DCC-Taschen - bei 20 % der Fälle.

- Wenn weiter gearbeitet wird, führt Commander Befehle mit sehr langen Verzögerungen aus (insbesondere bei "on the way page" sensoraktivierten Befehlen).

-Firmware neu flashen und Datensicherung-Wiederherstellung behandeln es nicht.

Frage:

-Wie behandelt man es? Kann es sein, dass die interne Flash-Disk von Commander mit der Zeit immer schlechter wird? Kann es sein, dass ich es auf PCB umlöten muss? Wo und welche Art muss ich verwenden?

========EN==========

TOPIC: Commander seems to have Alzheimer's disease.

CONDITIONS:

Software:

-FirmWare 1.401-1.402

-Automatic mode, about 100 routes.

-All fields and commands used (include FOLGER-Conductors).

HARDWARE:

-DCC format. No RailCom.

-About 1A feed.

-About 280 of S88 current sensors.

-About 100 turnouts and signals.

-About 10 trains.

-No FSB, No LSB, No Boosters.

-No wire or WiFi external Roco or PC Mouses.

EXPLANATIONS:

-Wen running in automatic mode, Commander is forgeting to execute some different route commands (Loko set speeds, switch functions, turnouts and signals ) at different pages (Switching, On the way, Route deactivating).

-This choise is absolute spontaneous.

-It occurs with rate about 2 forgetting commands per 10 routes.

-This is more drammatic in 1.402 FirmWare.

-Commander forget to execute this commands and do not indicate it's execution at LCD screen approximately at 80% cases, and indicate its execution but do not send appropriate DCC pockets - at 20% cases.

-If continue working, Commander is becoming to execute commands with very long delays (especially at "on the way page" sensor-activated commands).

-Firmware re-flashing and data backup-restore do not treat it.

Question:

How to treat it? May be Commander's internal flash disk is becoming worse and worse with a time? May be i must resolder it on PCB? Where and what type must i used?

================END===============

Thank You for fast respond.

Another questions:

1) Does FOLGE (aka Conductor - blue man icon) command calls execution of one manual route from multiple other routes with different locomotives which call it via "FOLGE" simultaneously. It will be blocked (overload happenes) or executed with guarantee for all different locos in this routes?

Another questions (because virtual contacts cannot be visualized or checked

2) Does the values of virtual contacts saved for constant memory of device when it shut's down?

3) Does the values of virtual contacts remains after route reset (red cross in lower right angle of screen)?

Aim: Prevent locomotive direction confuse in next start of Commander or after routes reset using it as a meaning of locomotive direction written by route which stopped at this track, in a next route in feedback page as a condition of appropriate route start ( or block unappropriate) for continue motion in correct side, while the same stop track is used for both direction of one type locomotives (passenger, for ex. ). Passenger locos arrived forward , must continue mooving forward, and vice-versa.

4) When next update of Commander 1 will be released?

Option for fixation and wishes :

a) Notes(text) at route diagram requires DCC addresses(why?), it have a bug.

b) Wish to have "page of start condition logic" at route editor, for condition of route start, but with contacts not in safe matrix - avoiding blocking of routes from checked contacts) .

c) Wish to have expanded capacity of safe matrix ( now all routes exceed 24 mutual crossings are unconditionally blocked ).

c1) Wish to have expanded capacity of all fields ( feedback, swiching, on the way... pages) .

d) Wish to have turnouts check by feedback contacts and appropriate logic of route start waiting and alarm signal.

e) Wish to have expanded logic of signals working outside routes (2, 3, 4 - sighn autoblocking regime ) using turnout positions and feedback as a soure of information. Type: Route control, automatic control( from route - only enable , signals - according sensors and turnouts)

f) Adjustable speed of S88.

g) Program track output usage as separate signal DCC (for turnouts and signals accesory bus).

g) External mouse to USB (sensor of touch screen have extremely low resouce ) or ability to control screen doings via PC. (as made in ESU ECOS).

h) Block for Multi-track automobile crossing with it's own logic from feedbacks.

i) At "on the way" page - for each contact - ability for multiple commands instead "FOLGE"(conductor) call external route. A lot of external routes. No free space!

j) Allow to load multiple scenario of route list.

- If no update - it's worth to create Open-Souce project!

4) Please advice appropriate type of more dependable touch screen with capacitive sensors.

------

Thanks a lot,

Vadim.

Hello.

Questions:

1) How Continue command works?

2) how to visualize virtual sensor values? (9,10...)

Zitat von jme

Hello Vadim,

what you mean with " Folge " comand ? I don't know this comand .please explain.

when you use a manual Route why you use contact fields in which section and card ? for what ?

one example please

1) I mean Folge Command which appears in Photo below.

I use 1.41 firmware.

2) I use about more than 500 manual routes. Usually, they works as shunting routes which controlled manually, by pressing start and stop buttons. They also must check contacts as a condition of safe work, and avoiding other hostile routes automatic or manual. (for example, uncoupling, changing Loco or route to turntable with turntable control feedback)

3) I want to use single sensor for multiple command execution. For example, to make the precise stop at the end of station track. Loco approaches to the output red light at minimal speed (1 at Viessman speed units ), pulling in track last tail cars from the turnout street, and release turnout's and last lights sensor.

To stop train precisely at the output short sensor near thr output lights, i must send 2 commands: 1- LocoIDFStop and 2- F4 on. F4 shuts off smooth behaviour of loco. If no F4 - it leads to train to unexpectable crawling out via red lights to stop at output turnouts. To make this according Viessman Rule (single contact = only one command [very nonconveniend = twiced quantity of sensors]) i am forced to use 2 electrical modules for one physical sensor. So, i have 2 sensor addresses and 2 these uppermentioned commands.

See 10 year old video, but problem still remains:

1)

2)

3)

( I can not use short contact as finish contact in aim of unstable current pickup by 1 or 2 axles. )

FOLGE command may help to use single sensor to 2 command's execution simultaneously.

But it use external manual route. In automatic route generation mode Commander may miss the attention (fulfilling 5 or more routes simultaneously) , and he may miss this route and train will miss to stop.

Is It so or Is'nt it? Have Commander ultimative control for FOLGE command execution ?

Also Commander sometimes forget to execute Function commands in swich and on the way pages, and it's critical too.

4) Example od Folge command and manual route with sensors:

It is obvious, Commander have not auto-lock system of signals and signals can be controlled only from routes. Commander also have not route with multiple stops (subroutes). Commander also have not feedback from turnout positions... All this is as awish for future

I try to modell four-digit auto-lock system. So, i must detect how many block-sections are free behind a traffic light. No - red, 1- Yellow, 2- Yellow-green, 3-green. If i use only automatical routes - a lot of routes must be written to embrace all these cases. It can lead to the Viessmann Commander Safe Matrix can be overloaded. As i written earlier, it stop working when more than 24 routes is crossing (detected experimentally, and no any Viessman warnings. Layout suddently stop working ).

As known, routes have combined field of feedback sensors which used as a route start condition and as safety condition or abscense of occupancy, named as "contacts page". they are a two different things! I mean for example, not start-sensor, but condition for start not short but only long route (with all traffic lights street along it), if all sensors are free , or start short route only when more distant sensors are busy, excluding it's start when distant sensors are free. I use marking it as RED in contacts field not as meaning of on the way occupansy, but as start condition meaning.

As a wish - have 2 separate fields: A) start condition, which not in the safe matrix, and B) safety sensors which must be not occupied. Now, contacts with 2 meanings pointed in single combined field (safe contacts which must be free and condition contacts which may be free and busy). So, started route will block other routes which contacts used as a condition only, and have not real way crossing ( occupied contacts of other routes at side sensors which not in the way of this route).

So, FOLGE command to manual route which must check sensors, and if they are free, swich lights from yellow to yellow green and fastly finish. If condition is wrong - it does not start and lights remains as yellow. Unfortunately manual routes with contacts is also included into safe matrix ad may overload it, so, there it restricts wide application of it.

Der Befehl „FOLGE“ von der automatischen Route muss die manuelle Route auf der Seite „On the Way“ adressieren.
- Wenn die manuelle Route keine Kontaktfelder hat, werden Befehle von der "Wechselseite" ausgeführt und der Lokname ist derselbe.
-Wenn eine manuelle Route Kontaktfelder hat, wird sie bei richtigem Kontaktstatus ausgeführt. Andernfalls Route abgelehnt.

Es ist allgemein bekannt, dass Commander es manchmal versäumt, Lokfunktionsbefehle auszuführen, die in "Seite wechseln" platziert sind. (dargestellt im "Schaltfeld" der Fahrstraße, aber nicht im Anzeigebildschirm bei in loco wenn Fahrstraße beginnt)

FRAGE: Wenn 2 oder mehr Fahrstraßen mit unterschiedlichen Loks gleichzeitig FOLGE-Befehle an dieselbe manuelle Fahrstraße senden, werden dann alle diese Befehle für alle diese Loks garantiert erfüllt (gibt es eine Befehlswarteschlange?), oder werden einige von ihnen abgelehnt? Kann ich den FOLGE-Befehl in verantwortungsvollen Fällen (bei Bremsen) verwenden?

------------------

QUESTION: FOLGE command execution with guarantie or occasionally, if 2 routes send it simultaneously to one manual route? Automatic mode

"FOLGE" command from automatical route must adres manual route in "On the Way" page.

-if manual route have not contact fields it execute commands from "swich page" and loco name is the same.

-if a manual route have contact fields it will execute in case of right contact state. Else, route rejected.

It is well known, that Commander sometimes miss to do loco function commands placed in "switch page". (presented in "swich field" of route, but not done in indication screen at in loco when route starts)

QUESTION: if 2 or more routes with different locos will simultaneously send FOLGE command to the same manual route , does all these commands for all these locos will fullfilled with guarantee (does queue of commands exists?), or some of them will be rejected? Can i use FOLGE command in responsible cases (in brake).

Versteckte Regel für die Begrenzung der Routennummer im Auto Safe Matrix-Modus

Experimentell festgestellt ist die versteckte Regel: nicht mehr als 24 Routen dürfen gleichzeitige gegenseitige Kontaktkreuzungen haben (Sie können es berechnen, indem Sie in den manuellen sicheren Matrixmodus wechseln), sonst ist die sichere Matrix überlastet und alle Routen werden so gesperrt (Sie können sie nicht starten manuell durch Drücken von Start und Stopp), wird die automatische Routensuche gestoppt. Es werden keine Warnmeldungen angezeigt. Es ist also eine strenge Regel. Es wurde viel Zeit aufgewendet, um es zu öffnen. Ich entferne viele Routen, um dieser Regel zu folgen.

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Hidden rule for route number limit in Auto Safe Matrix Mode

Experimentaly detected the hidden rule is: no more than 24 routes must have simultaneous mutual contact intersections(you can calculate it, switching in manual safe matrix mode), else safe matrix is overloading, and all routes becomes as locked (you can not start it manually by pressing start and stop), automatical route search process is stopping. No any warning mesages is appearing. So, it's a strict rule. A lot of time was spent to open it. I remove a lot of routes to follow this rule.

Experimentaly detected the hidden rule is: no more than 24 routes must have simultaneous mutual contact intersections(you can calculate it, switching in manual safe matrix mode), else safe matrix is overloading, and all routes becomes as locked (you can not start it manually by pressing start and stop), automatical route search process is stopping. No any warning mesages is appearing. So, it's a strict rule. A lot of time was spent to open it. I remove a lot of routes to follow this rule.

--

Experimentell festgestellt ist die versteckte Regel: nicht mehr als 24 Routen dürfen gleichzeitige gegenseitige Kontaktkreuzungen haben (Sie können es berechnen, indem Sie in den manuellen sicheren Matrixmodus wechseln), sonst ist die sichere Matrix überlastet und alle Routen werden so gesperrt (Sie können sie nicht starten manuell durch Drücken von Start und Stopp), wird die automatische Routensuche gestoppt. Es werden keine Warnmeldungen angezeigt. Es ist also eine strenge Regel. Es wurde viel Zeit aufgewendet, um es zu öffnen. Ich entferne viele Routen, um dieser Regel zu folgen.

Zitat von driethenauer

Danke Helmut für diese Antwort.

Dies ist auch mein Kenntnistand. Ich habe nur nicht konkret widersprochen, da ich
öfter was überlese.
Im Übrigen meine ich, dass Viessmann gut daran tut nicht zu frühzeitig Details eines neuen Gerätes
zu verraten.

(Hallo Helmut, your answer is my mean too.
And Viessmann works rigth by siing not to much about a new centrale so soon.)

--------

Experimentaly detected the hidden rule is: no more than 24 routes must have simultaneous mutual contact intersections(you can calculate it, switching in manual safe matrix mode), else safe matrix is overloading, and all routes becomes as locked (you can not start it manually by pressing start and stop), automatical route search process is stopping. No any warning mesages is appearing. So, it's a strict rule. A lot of time was spent to open it. I remove a lot of routes to follow this rule.

------

Experimentell festgestellt ist die versteckte Regel: nicht mehr als 24 Routen dürfen gleichzeitige gegenseitige Kontaktkreuzungen haben (Sie können es berechnen, indem Sie in den manuellen sicheren Matrixmodus wechseln), sonst ist die sichere Matrix überlastet und alle Routen werden so gesperrt (Sie können sie nicht starten manuell durch Drücken von Start und Stopp), wird die automatische Routensuche gestoppt. Es werden keine Warnmeldungen angezeigt. Es ist also eine strenge Regel. Es wurde viel Zeit aufgewendet, um es zu öffnen. Ich entferne viele Routen, um dieser Regel zu folgen.

-----

Alles anzeigen

Hello again!

You say:

"Hello Vadim,

at the moment it is not possible to update Commander 1 "

Please explain in detail when you will make Commander - 1 able for fast updates?

-At one hand a big quantity people have it and encounter with inconveniences and bugs.

-At the other hand Commander-2 is not ready, and, probably, will not have software compartibility with Commander-1. (download -upload backups from Commander-1 <-> Commander-2 )

If Viessmann have not resources for supporting Commander - May be is it worth to open souce codes for all people, or make an "OPEN PROJECT" ?

PLEASE, DONT MISS US!

--------------------------

Hallo wieder!

Du sagst:

"Hallo Vadim,

Momentan ist es nicht möglich, Commander 1 zu aktualisieren. "

.

Bitte erläutern Sie ausführlich, wann Sie Commander - 1 für schnelle Updates aktivieren können.

- Auf der einen Seite haben eine große Menge Menschen es und stoßen auf Unannehmlichkeiten und Fehler.

- Auf der anderen Seite ist Commander-2 nicht bereit und wird wahrscheinlich keine Softwarekompartibilität mit Commander-1 haben. (Download-Upload-Backups von Commander-1 <-> Commander-2)

Wenn Viessmann keine Ressourcen zur Unterstützung von Commander hat - Kann es sich lohnen, Quellcodes für alle Personen zu öffnen oder ein "OPEN PROJECT" zu erstellen?

BITTE VERPASSEN SIE UNS NICHT! .

Are there anybody from Viessmann, who can answer?

About Conductor command: If i must precisely stop loco, at final contact i also must fulfill 2 comands simultaneously: 1. Stop loco 2. Turn off smoth velocity behavior, else i risk to run over turnouts.
So, if i would use a Conductor, i must translate loco name to conductored route. How is it possible? Also, i must have pair of routes in each case, so i risk to get lack of free route slots. Also i risk to be confused! One route - One record!
I found out another way : I join first S88 in with last s88 out, and set up Commander for 2 times quantities of s88 modules. So the same contact becomes 2 different contact numbers, because it rotates in this cycle 2 times.
The problem solved, and now, at "on the way" page of route i be able record these 2 commands at different contact numbers, which are in fact the same contact and these 2 commands will be fulfilled! But i occupied all 32 module adresses, and cannot expand my layout. Another disadvantage - S88 system speed of address refresh becomes slow. ECOS works with s88 10 times faster, why Viessman have not adjustable s88 refresh rate?
Why viessman bring us such anguish with restriction to do only single command per single contact? This is quite inconvenient and lead to so huge and confusing solutions!

Thanks for all.
I have Commander 1 with 1.400 firmware, first about 150 automatic routes. Other are manual.

When i start manual route, after it's end any other and absolutle independant route seems locked for Commander-1, although it's start conditions are true.
Only reset automatic helps to start any of next one.
May be, we have hidden restriction on maximal contact number? I have all 512 used.
May be large numbers of contacts overlaps with functional memory? Or, may be last command field in route pages overlaps... ?
What is Your experience with hidden properties of Commander-1?

Please help.

-----------
Vadim

Cited: "I don`t know how many routes are avaiable I think we must wait till c2 is ready."
I mean this about C1.

Namely, the Question is:

How many automatic routes are available at Commander-1 ?
or
Wwhich numbers are reserved for automatic routes?

I have a Commander-1 and about 150 first numbers of automatic routes. Routes 150-600 are manual.

I have unexplainable stop searching automatic routes in autpomatic mode.
I also have all routes locking after first start of any manual route.
I still cannot find out a reason.

Please, Help.

---------
Vadim

It seems that there is nobody ....

COMMANDER -1:

Hello. Please help with organizing routes.

I have about 600 different routes, where first 130 are automatic, remaining routes are manual.

Often automatic searching of routes at fully automatic mode is seems as unreasonable freezing and routes look like as unreasonable locking when i try to launch it manually.
Only reset automatic button helps to activate it.

May be i exceed limit of routes/automatic routes?

COMMANDER-2

Does it have conversion programm to move trackplan, routes, locos from Commander 1 ?
When i can see hardware description?

----
Vadim

Hello!

I still a big Fan of Commander 1, because it's a single boxed control with applicable capabilities.

In aim to improove train control i have some wishes for Commander 2:

Are this features will be added to Commander 2?

HARDWARE:

1) Will ability to adjust S88 speed faster be integrated ?

2) Will Independent DCC Accessory Output (which will be "ON" while short circuit on RAIL output) be implemented?
(aim: for example: to restore wrong turnout positions in hidden area... )

3) Will More dependable capasitive touchscreen be instead?

Software:

1) In Route Programming : Will "ON THE WAY" contact action expanded for multiple commands ?

2) Will Ability for precise smooth loco stop using second contact for end feedback will be implemented?

3) Will Bug when automatic continue working at short circuit be resolved?

------------
Vadim

Clean run in PVLK museum train :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJbj_buAtUU

Photos:

[Blockierte Grafik: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6732/5475818.19/0_a88aa_e4efacdb_L]

[Blockierte Grafik: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6830/5475818.19/0_a88ab_7990eb52_L]

[Blockierte Grafik: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6825/5475818.19/0_a88ac_d8c347cb_L]

Inside PVLK train: (portable RZD Road russian museum):

[Blockierte Grafik: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6843/5475818.19/0_a88ad_b605eb9f_L]

----------

Clean run in PVLK museum train :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJbj_buAtUU

Photos:

[Blockierte Grafik: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6732/5475818.19/0_a88aa_e4efacdb_L]

[Blockierte Grafik: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6830/5475818.19/0_a88ab_7990eb52_L]

[Blockierte Grafik: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6825/5475818.19/0_a88ac_d8c347cb_L]

Inside PVLK train: (portable RZD Road russian museum):

[Blockierte Grafik: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6843/5475818.19/0_a88ad_b605eb9f_L]

----------

meine Walthers Drehscheibe im GBS:
[Blockierte Grafik: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9254/5475818.18/0_9f12e_61702ab4_L]

---------
Vadim