Posts by vadimav

    Hello Jurgen.
    I have 2 questions:


    1)


    If i have full automation mode, and if track voltage will be off (for ex. due to shorts)
    Commander will continue switching turnouts and send commands although they cannot be sended.
    It was not so correct. Commander must wait and resume automation when track voltage will be restored.


    This bug remains or fixed in 1.103?



    2) Can You implement new function button (for sending sounds ) which will contain the following sequence, 3 commande per one:
    (
    TrainId Fxx - ON
    Wait 1 (or xx) seconds
    TrainId Fxx - Off
    )


    It will significvantly save space in switching commands KARTE.



    ---------
    Vadim.

    Quote from Jürgen Meier

    Dear Vadim,
    clear, its not possible to make 2 routes from the same Start and Goal ZNR field. Thats not workable.
    One of the ZNR field must be different, than the way is different.
    The Commander starts by manual operation the first route.
    Please programm this routes in semi automatic not manual.
    You can start this routes than with start and dest. key or with automatic.



    Thanks,
    This routes were programmed as automatic routes.


    --------
    Vadim

    Quote from Jürgen Meier

    Vadim Sorry, thats not korrekt, we works on our plan.
    We accept some other opinions, but not that we have to follow all.
    its so how i wrote, not yet.
    The commands in card 4 an 7 works all properly, please make a test.



    Thanks, Jurgen.
    And now one additional question:


    Let us speak about error in launching routes manually at manual operation mode:


    1) If i have, for example, 2 routes which begin at the same start point at one station, goes through second station through different ways, and ending at the same destination point.
    As we see, they are only with different intermediate paths (different ways through intermediate station), but with the same start and destination.Therefore occupancy sensors differ only at middle part.


    2)Then we lock first route at route list by placing thain at one way at intermediate station, activating their occupancy. Other way remains non-occupied.


    3) Then i try to launch any of free route, pressing start and destination buttons, but Commander find only busy route which is first at route listing and lock any searching process for other free routes between these 2 points!


    Why?


    ----------
    Vadim

    Quote from Jürgen Meier

    Dear Vadim,
    not at the Moment



    It's not so good. Work goes too slowly!


    Can You tell me when do You plan to complete it?


    And how aboutquestion N2?


    2) Does last command fields in swiching commands and deactivation commands start to work properly at V1.103?


    -------
    Vadim.

    Quote from Jürgen Meier

    Hallo,
    wir haben testweise die maximale Anzahl von Fstr. von 10 erhöht und nicht berücksichtigt dass die Fstr. Anzeige maximal nur 10 Fstr. anzeigen kann. Eventuell ist hier der Fehler für diesen Anzeigefehler bzw. Fstr. Blockade zu suchen. Wie gesagt es ist eine Vermutung noch keine Tatsache.
    Wir untersuchen das gerade.
    Also bitte etwas Geduld.



    Hello Jurgen.


    I have 2 questions:


    1) Do You plan to remove restrictions for activation other routes when one route execute waits at "SWITCHING COMMANDS" KARTE?


    2) Does last command fields in swiching commands and deactivation commands start to work properly at V1.103?



    ------------
    Thanks.
    Vadim

    Quote from Jürgen Meier



    Hello Jurgen!


    I have 2 questions:


    1) Does last field now works at "Switching Commands" and "Deactivation commands" in 1.103?


    2) About the Delay command:


    Can You realize parallell working of delays in switching fields and starts other routes?


    3) Minutes works only in deactivation Commands KARTE (7)? I understood right?


    --------
    Thanks,
    Vadim

    Hello!


    Now i have a lot of FahrStrassen (Routes) at my automated mode of Commander.


    DISADVANTAGES:
    Adding new routes is very difficult because i must rebuilt all safe matrix of all previous routes manually. (not enough fields in feedback kontact KARTE)


    SUGGESTIONS FOR THIS SUMMER :


    When we are intensively constructing our layouts, Please, make Commander applicable for fast and error-free functioning, and add AUTOMATIC BUILDING button in the LAST KARTE (where indication of routes).


    All what You must do - draw diagramm in diagramm editor, place data for feedback, lights and turnouts, and simply DRAW ROUTE BY LINE and all data will be done automatically!


    EXPLANATION:
    Then, you open a new route in route editor, and go to last page.
    When You draw indication from start to the end, Commander will automatically generate all fields in all KARTEN! It will fill: Start, destination and feedback contacts, At switching field it will add proper turnouts in proper positions, at ON THE WAY page it will use, if needs, precise stop braking algorythm, using 3 sensors, added in ZNR properties dialog, and then it will update full safe matrix.
    (Full Safe Matrix rebuilding may be realized as separate button.)


    Safe Matrix of each route must consist of automatic and manual windows. Only Automatic window must be updated automatically.


    1) So, after such automation You may do only slight correction, (add name, sounds, delays, et al)
    2) We will remove All Hyman-factor errors in switching and other fields.


    I think, it would be too fast and very convenient!
    Especially, if You allow to insert IBM-PC Mouse into USB socket instead of very bugfull and nonsensitive stylys screen.


    3) Please expand Traffic Lights dialog, adding for each light-combination state proper position of turnouts and ocupancy detectors. It will allow RED-YELLOW-GREEN automation, and will function properly after route termination.


    -------------
    Vadim


    Thanks.


    Please write at numerical order all changes from 1.102 to 1.103.


    --------
    Vadim

    FirmWare V 1.102:
    It was a problem with early deactivation of routes when we need to transfer name to ZNR field of long central contact on station (with dependable electrical pickup).
    The same contact also deactivate route commands at "on the way" KARTE, and train cannot finalize stop at the end of station.


    PROPOSAL:


    Let's separate them?


    Please make 2 field in Destination KARTE:


    Destination Contact is separating into 2 function:


    1) ZNR name Receiver contact(s) (aka Long statin way)


    2) Route deactivation contact(s) (short contact at end of station way)


    Also, it will allow to deactivate cab lights and sounds in train to be in time - after full stop!


    3) Allowing making 2 commands for the same contact will not drammatically decrease processor speed!


    -----------
    Vadim

    1)


    QUESTION:
    If You have 2 or more free routes at one start contact which is ACTIVATED, how to select one route for one arriving route and another for other?
    (for example, instant and alternative pass for train )


    EXPLANATION:


    As i understood, Commander do not make random selection, and always take first.
    Therefore second route will be always idle.


    Successor command would make easy to solve different combinations and set a desirable priority of routes at node Start-Destination contact.


    2)

    Quote from Jürgen Meier


    QUESTION:
    Do You plan to implement specific routes where each of them will work for specified class of locos (Dampf, diesel, passenger, electric, local... or appointed list of locos)?


    ANSWER:
    Not on our priority list, but we might think about it when everything else is done.


    QUESTION:
    Please tell how to separate electric, local and freight routes, which using one start/destination contact? Some trains have different lengths and may havent pantograpsh, and must be branched from one common to appropriate ways! How to do it?


    3)

    Quote from Jürgen Meier


    QUESTION:
    Do You plan to make traffic lights working not only from route commands but also from logic of occupancy detectors and turnout positions? This will allow to implement YELLOWs, where routes are fullfiled!


    ANSWER:
    Not on our priority list, but we might think about it when everything else is done.


    QUESTION:
    But how to realize Red-Yellow-Green trafic lights logic?
    Please explain.


    4)

    Quote from Jürgen Meier


    QUESTION:
    Do two commands having the same occupancy contact (for activation) work now at "on the way" KARTE?
    Earlier, second of them was ignored. To overcome it, i joined s88 into ring, doubling their numbers!


    ANSWER:
    No, they are not designed that way. It would slow the performance of the automatic mode, if each and every feedback conatct had to manage a long list of commands. Maybe allowing "folge-fstr" command would be a solution, as it can start a route which will inculde all the commands. Not on the priority list, probably more than 6 fields (3 on-the-way contacts) would be done sooner (or instead of it).



    EXPLANATION:
    It's obviously that "ON THE WAY" commands must be executed instantly!
    Please make assembler insertion in Your C language. It will improve performance 10 times or more!
    Newertheless, At finalisation of braking (at stop sensor) loco must instantly execute TWO commands per ONE sensor:
    1) shunt and
    2) stop!


    To do this i join s88 sequence to the ring, by soldering iron, connecting computer output to input of first module, and double s88 module numbers at COMMANDERs setup.
    So that the same contact have 2 different numbers. So, it allow to execute TWO commands per ONE sensor.
    But this doings make s88 2 times slowlier!
    NEWERTHELESS the PERFORMANCE is still ENOUGH!


    QUESTION:
    Please allow to execute 2 commands per the same sensor, If it's difficult - don't change menus!
    Simply, allow the following:


    CONTACT 1
    COMMAND LocoIdFMini

    CONTACT 2
    COMMAND LocoIdFStop
    CONTACT2
    COMMAND LocoIdF4=ON


    You also can extend this menus, "1 command per 1 contact" up to 6 pairs! It would be enough at this time!


    But, please allow executions all commands for repeating number of the same contact!



    EXPLANATION:
    From another hand:
    Start of any other route will be delayed, if another route is executing "SWITCHING" field.


    QUESTION:
    COMMANDER cannot start exexution of route, when "switching" field of another route is under execution!
    Is it right?

    EXPLANATION:
    Therefore, using FOLGE - fstr way, which You propose, my loco will not stop momentary and continue movement a long apart from turnouts, waiting when swiching field of another route will end, and then, waiting launching FOLGE fstr. Right?


    QUESTION:
    Do You plan to make COMMANDER be able to run more than 1 "switching" fields simultaneously, or run multiple routes in parallel independantly?

    Please use Assembler language, C compiler for Arms is too non-optimal!
    -----------
    Thanks,
    Vadim

    Quote from antony_ag

    Grüezi Antony


    ---------EN----------
    There is some clips from my small N-Scale railroad layout.
    All trains works with Viessmann-Commander route automation.
    But i still cannot implement trafic lights. There is no space at karten command fields and no logic for Yellow regime!


    --------DE-----------
    Es gibt einige Clips von meiner kleinen Spur N Gleisplan.
    Alle Züge arbeitet mit Viessmann-Commander Route Automatisierung.
    Aber ich kann immer noch nicht umsetzen Ampel. Es ist kein Platz auf Karten Befehl Felder und keine Logik für Gelb-Regime!


    Sound trains:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhYYDgFWtwo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi30aPXJgaI
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFuz9S3dyMs


    Some automation:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6tRDUQz_SU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Lt5HzigHQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RQfk1_fbs4


    ---------
    Vadim

    Hello Jürgen Meier!


    I have some questions about present FIRMWARE 1.102 and suggestions for NEXT FIRMWARE:


    1) Do You plan to increase quantity of command fields at all KARTEN of route editor?
    There is too little space, Especially at "On the way, Switching, deactivation " Karten.


    2) Do You plan to allow to make succesors after finalisation of routes?
    This is analog of "Folge" command, but which can work for routes in full automation mode, using safe matrix.


    3) Does MINUTES region work now at "Lock trace command"?
    Earlier, only secundes region was work. Minutes - were ignored.


    4) Do You plan to implement specific routes where each of them will work for specified class of locos (Dampf, diesel, passenger, electric, local... or appointed list of locos)?


    5) Do You plan to make traffic lights working not only from route commands but also from logic of occupancy detectors and turnout positions? This will allow to implement YELLOWs, where routes are fullfiled!


    6) Do two commands having the same occupancy contact (for activation) work now at "on the way" KARTE?
    Earlier, second of them was ignored. To overcome it, i joined s88 into ring, doubling their numbers!


    -------
    Vadim

    Quote from s.vita

    There is a pdf document with the information about all the changes. Soon it will be available in English as well.
    Feedbacks set to "permanent" mode in the route Editor, on-the-way contacts, will remain active even after the route is finished.



    Sz.Vita


    Thanks.


    Questions:


    TO "permanent" mode :


    1) Are this contacts will be resetted after first activation, releasing for usage at other routes?


    2) If contact will be activated again, will it lead to command repeat?


    3) If i have 2 commands per 1 contact at one route at "On The Way" page,


    Example:
    Contact 5 - TrainID FStop
    Contact 5 -TrainId F4=ON


    Does both commands will be activated in new version?



    At old version V1.057 only one command was executed.


    I overcomed this bug by doubling number of contacts, joining S88 output of last module to the input of first S88 module by wire, making "ring" , and doubling tne number of S88 blocks at Commander setup. So that, the same contact has 2 different numbers! For example, in case of 10 16bit 5217 modules connected into the ring - contact 1 has second number as 201, 2 -> 202 ... etc. Therefore i achieved execution of 2 commands per one sensor!


    So that :
    non-workable Example1 is transforming to workable Example2:
    :
    Contact 5 - TrainID FStop
    Contact 205 -TrainId F4=ON


    But how about V1.1XX?
    Do You remove this bug?


    -------
    Vadim

    Quote from s.vita


    A "fatal error" means that the system crashes or similar problems arise, which is not the case here. "On-the-way" commands must be erased when the route is no longer active. Why?


    1) Why man set up a route? In aim to forget it in future ? Please tell me? Where is the logic?
    If man set up a route - it's waiting that He must fulfil it to the end! Isn't it?
    If a major quantity of people do this mistake, it remains as Mistake and IT DOES NOT BECOMES AS TRUTH or RULE!


    Please explain rules in manual, and there would be no big quantity of annoying people.


    2)
    A)If man wish to move locos manually, He can discard all routes and delete all commands using "Reset route" button, without restart of Commander. Why not?
    B)If man wish to execute routes fully - it must press "Manual operation". And all "on the way" commands must be remained, in aim to execute.
    Do You agree?


    3) Resetting "on the way" commands lead to FATAL unability of precise and dependable stops of locos.
    May be there is NONE who need this?
    I think that Commander must be discarded at all, if it havent a skill to precisely stops trains with real and dependable feedback at the end of braking!



    4) Please tell me HOW VIESSMANN PLANS TO DO PRECISE STOP OF LOCOS?
    I dont find out it in manual.
    Using Viessman method, described in MANUAL - my trains either overrun via output turnouts of stops earlier leaving cars at input turnouts! And this fact can be explained in terms of automatic control theory! Namely: There is NO FEEDBACK for precision end of braking! Motor has unstable BEMF, wheels has unpredictable creeping ... et.al. Therefore using CV2 and CV3 inertia, or, even Constant Braking Distance ability of some decoders - we will continue achieving overrun or underrun of trains!
    Therefore i must "INVENT" my own method, described here:


    http://www.viessmann-modell.co…/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1363


    4-A) Also, i propose to integrate precise stops , (ike in professional program TrainController ) into ZNR block properties! It will allow to correct interception of routes by each other, having a precise 3-commands stops, in case of wait, or smooth continuation, when loco moves without stop, if loco still dont reach stop contact. Only in this case these stop commands at "on the way" KARTE must be deleted!
    All these option cann de implemented into ZNR properties dialog very conveniently!



    5) Commanders menu has so small entries, therefore it deny to overcome your V1.1XX bug by another ways. There is absolutely no space to enter anything more!


    Quote from s.vita


    Exactly because someone can set them, forget them, and 2 hours later they are unexpectedly activated by a competely different train!
    Viessmann will not re-introduce a bug which might frustrate over 1000 users just because one single user demands it. If you intend to stop the train as you described, there are two solutions:


    Why man set up a route? In aim to forget it in future ? Please tell me? Where is the logic?
    If man set up a route - it's waiting that He must fulfil it to the end! Isn't it?
    If a major quantity of people do this mistake, it remains as Mistake and IT DOES NOT BECOMES AS TRUTH or RULE!
    Please explain rules in manual, and there would be no big quantity of annoying people.



    Quote from s.vita


    - Set the Feedback to "MOM" in the feedback editor, and don't forget to set it back to gray in the following route.


    1) I havent any additional space to place this command in some routes.
    Please add twice free space for route command entries at next FIRMWARE!
    2) Does MOM sensors are saved after Commander's restart?
    3) This method will requre 2 ZNR fields at both bi-directional ends of station track and will require more space at diagramm, and to enter more commands at "feedback page" for safety, but, there is NO SPACE in entries of commands at route menus !!!


    Quote from s.vita


    - or, use the new feature introduced in the 1.102 version, which allows to set "permanent" on-the-way commands in the route editor, by pressing the red FB-Encoder symbol with the letter "P" on it.
    best wishes,
    Sz. Vita


    Please describe more details about it.


    --------
    Thanks,
    Vadim.


    ==================EN===================


    I tested this update V 1.102.


    Routes still continue deleting all commands in KARTE "on the way" when contact of destination is reached!
    This exists at Manual and Automatic mode.
    This is the System Fatal ERROR!
    Please CORRECT IT BACK!


    COMMANDS MUST BE DELETED ONLY AFTER COMMANDER RESTART!
    Even switching to "MANUAL OPERATION" MUST also SAVE this commands!


    Only this is logically correct!


    Why we must delete comands which one man written, and then he forget to remember?????????


    --------
    Thanks,
    Vadim.


    =====================DE=======================


    Getestet habe ich dieses Update V 1,102.


    Routen noch weiter Löschen aller Befehle in Karte "auf dem Weg", wenn der Zielort erreicht ist kontaktieren!
    Dies ist noch vorhanden auf Hand-und Automatikbetrieb.
    Dies ist die System-Fataler Fehler!
    Bitte korrigieren Sie BACK!


    BEFEHLE darf erst nach COMMANDER Neustart gelöscht werden!
    Selbst Umschalten auf "Handbetrieb" muss auch diese Befehle SPAREN!


    Nur das ist logisch richtig!


    Warum müssen wir löschen auszuführenden Befehle, die ein Mann geschrieben, und dann hat er vergessen, sich zu erinnern?????????



    --------
    Danke,
    Vadim.


    =========================================

    Quote from Jürgen Meier

    Dear Vadim,
    Thank you for everything you have written, but the rules for the Commander driving roads are fixed at the moment.
    The fact that you have used an error in driving roads program, before software 1.1, we know that.
    There is only one way to solve your problem.
    But wait for our reply. First we have to do things which are specified for the commander to system.


    Thanks for respond!.


    Now i use old Firmware 1.057
    I think, that V1.1 have an error instead V1.057.
    Probably, you did not understand me.
    V1.1 have wrong moment of deleting "on the way" commands in comparison to V1.057!
    V1.1 closes ability of precise stopping at all!


    All another approaches to avoid V1.1 error for precise stopping are complicating contact plan scheme and overloading numbers of contacts in feedback and other pages! (implementing MOM and Virtual contacts, implementing 2 ZNR fields per 1 track et al.)


    Probably, i cannot even explain all ideas about dependability of working and theory of automatical regulation which can be applied in railroad modelling, because programmers of Commander must have a PhD-knowledge in radioengineering, in mechanics, in physics, and must be real fanatics in railroad modelling simultaneously !


    As i understood, Commander choose emotional way instead of professional railroader's way!


    Why You have not any need of precise stopping?
    Why You have not any need in realistic traffic lights, ... et al?


    May be your orientation is Toys For Children?
    May be education of users is degrading so long, that real modelling is no needing now, and folk needs only simply toys?


    It's a philosophy.... no more!


    ------
    Vadim


    Hello driethenauer
    1) I think, that route automation must have main importance!
    2) I think that emotional factors like IPAD screen moving - not so important! This is things of 10-nd order of importance.


    3) TO JURGEN:
    PLEASE IMPLEMENT In "destination" KARTE expanded SELECTION of RUOTE RESET condition.


    Karte must be look like as previous but with addition 2 SELECTION FIELDS near contacts:


    1)
    Reset route when:
    SELECTION:
    (*) - Both destination contact are reached
    or
    (*) - At least one destination contact reached.


    2)
    Loco ZNR NAME translate to :
    FIELD:
    (*)Selection near First contact
    (*)Select near Second contact


    It will solve whole problem if second contact would be selected as short end stop-contact.



    ----------
    Vadim

    Quote from driethenauer

    Hallo Vadim, du hast gute Idee....


    =================DE==================


    Ich meine, dass es sich lohnt zu Disziplin (Ordnung) jetzt machen!


    Dies ist die wichtigste Regeln der Automatisierung für AKTUELLE SITUATION zum oben genannten ROT und GRÜN Regeln:


    1) Berühren Sie niemals manuell Lokomotive in der Arbeit Route oder in Regime von automatisierten Bewegung.


    2) Wenn Sie manuell berühren Lokomotive in aktive Route gibt, bitte beachten Sie, dass alle Befehle von Kontakten aktiv ist.
    Wenn Sie Lokomotive zu unterbrechen, schließlich müssen Sie erholen alte Richtung und Geschwindigkeit der Lok, so dass es Ende der Strecke erreichen muss.


    3) Wenn Sie Lok manuell zu verschieben - bitte machen Sie es mit Commander Knöpfe von Hand, nicht durch die Aktivierung Routen.


    Für Programmierer:
    Bitte lesen Sie TrainController Ideologie, und sie in der Viessmann Commander.
    Dies ist sehr erprobte und wahre algorythms und Ideologie!
    Bitte nicht erfinden Fahrrad, professionell sein und verwenden häufigsten angewendeten Regeln für die automatisierte Modellierung Eisenbahn Layouts.


    --------
    Vadim


    =================EN==================




    Hello driethenauer!


    I mean that it's worth to make discipline (ordnung) now!


    This is the main rules of automation for CURRENT SITUATION for abovementioned RED and GREEN rules :


    1) NEVER manually touch locomotive in working route or in regime of automated movement .


    2) If You manually touch locomotive in active route, please keep in mind that all commands of contacts is active.
    If You interrupt locomotive, finally, You must recover old direction and velocity of loco so that it must reach end of route.


    3) If you want to move loco manually - please make it using Commander's Knobs by hands, not by activating routes.


    FOR PROGRAMMERS:
    Please read TrainController ideology, and realise it in Viessman Commander.
    This is very tried-and-true algorythms and ideology!
    Please dont invent bicycle, be professional and use commonly-applied rules for automated railroad modelling layouts.


    --------
    Vadim